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Re: Class of 2023 Analysis (Discussion)

By blackflys
7/19/2016 5:25 pm
4-5 yards is what a low end rushing team will average. and 5-6 years to get production is a little to late. theres so many low round rbs who would produce more then all the conversions being talked about. a good defense will stop a converted TE any day no matter how much weight he loses. his 100 speed will never be the same as a 215 pound guy even if the te gets down to 215.there not made for rb and they shouldent even be able to be switched to RB. its never in nfl history been done and there is a good reason.

Re: Class of 2023 Analysis (Discussion)

By Pittball1
7/19/2016 5:45 pm
When switching positions make sure that's what you want. It takes time to max out a position. What I'm getting at is you may waste seasons and eventually a very good players career by switching his position more than once.

Re: Class of 2023 Analysis (Discussion)

By Brrexkl
7/19/2016 5:45 pm
raymattison21 wrote:
Brrexkl wrote:
I didn't even consider 'Positional Height', on the Weight. That might be a good point, and why so many TE fail the conversion.

I did notice that a Top 5 RB in our League is 231 lbs. So not everyone has to be 217-220.

And again, I believe other aspects impact a Players Performance. I have a Bad Offensive Line, which I feel negatively impacts my QB and RB (along with Bad WRs having a negative impact on my QB).

I'm working to fix this, with more STR and Run Block at the Point of Attack. This obviously won't help the QB, but due to a severe lack of Speed he may be a lost cause anyways... so help the one I can help, which is the RBs.

For instance, Sergio Phillips is also a Converted TE. He weighs 255 lbs. He averaged 4.7 YPC with a Long of 39 with 2 TD on 56 Carries.

This is slightly better than Winfred McMaster, an actual RB, who put up 4.5 YPC and 0 TD with a Long of 39 on 76 Carries.

Behind the exact same OL. So Sergio, a Converted TE, can do better than McMaster, an Actual RB, behind the exact same Line. BEFORE Sergio loses ANY Weight.

Leon Arana is far better than Sergio at virtually everything... except Ball Carrying. It may turn out that 90+ is REQUIRED, to which I'll have to convert Leon Arana back to TE since he'll top off at 87 (unless he has a Boom an exceeds his expectations), as Sergio Phillips already has 93/100.

So that's what I'm looking to study, the difference in Ball Carry and the Impact it has on Performance. The ONLY thing that would grant Sergio a better chance is his Ball Carry. We'll see if Leon improves as his Ball Carry goes up, to the point of being a 4.5+ YPC kind of guy, like Sergio.



I have a TE in MFN 1 that was converted as a rookie . 5-6 years into the league and now he is a viable threat for speed. 100 speed and acceleration combined with a 60 ball carry. Still, it was not until last season after a 30 pound weight loss was any sort of consistency was seen. He is a 4 plus kinda guy now like Ricky Waters6'2 220-230. But as a rookie it was like 258lbs and 2.8. The higher the strength or ball carry is only better. Also, height doesn't matter for running or blocking. At least I haven't seen any confirmation saying either.


Yeah, he only put up 3.1 YPC as a Rookie over the Last 5 Games (when I moved him to RB).

I'm hopeful, as Sergio Phillips was still 255 as well, and was able to hit 4.7 YPC (best on my Team). I moved him around the same time.

The only thing, as far as Running Backs go, that Sergio has better is Ball Carry, so I'm hoping as Leon gets more Ball Carry his Average will move up... and then once he (and for that matter, Sergio) lose Weight the Effective Speed will allow them to push even further in their Production.

Leon Arana is 6'5" and 255 (18% Over) with:
98 SPD, 100 ACC, 100 STR, 87/93 BTKL, 78/87 BC, and 78/88 AFum.

Sergio Phillips is 6'4" and 255 (17% Over) with:
87 SPD, 100 ACC, 100 STR, 87/98 BTKL, 93/100 BC, and 67 AFum.

2023 Stats:
Leon Arana: 146 Carries, *** Yards, 3.1 YPC, 17 Long, 1 Rushing TD.
Sergio Phillips: 56 Carries, 264 Yards, 4.7 YPC, 39 Long, 2 Rushing TD.

So despite being the same size (weird they see Sergio as 17% Over, but Arana as 18% Over at the same Weight/Position), and despite Arana being better at everything except Ball Carry, we get Sergio with a 1.6 YPC Advantage on Leon.

Leads me to believe that Ball Carry has a HUGE impact and needs to be 90+, especially for 'Big Backs' like Leon and Sergio.

Sergio would be a Fumble Liability is why I'm not pushing him more as the Starter, but if Sergio pans out and Leon doesn't then I guess Leon will move back to TE and help Block from there to improve the Running Game.

It's all a work in progress to see how these things impact the games.

Re: Class of 2023 Analysis (Discussion)

By Brrexkl
7/19/2016 5:49 pm
Pittball1 wrote:
When switching positions make sure that's what you want. It takes time to max out a position. What I'm getting at is you may waste seasons and eventually a very good players career by switching his position more than once.


Indeed. I WANT Leon Arana to become a viable RB, especially since I couldn't get the QB to Target him with an All TE Passes Play Book. But something else bothered me as well, in the few Receptions he got at TE, I never saw a single Broken Tackle. At RB, he shrugs people all the time. So he was never getting any YAC as a TE, limiting his effectiveness severely.

He lost some Blocking moving to RB, so the OL idea is out of the question. But worst case he moves back to TE and does what he can from there.

We'll see how it goes. If he improves this Season he'll be staying at RB, I really think it's just a matter of his Weight getting down and his Ball Carry improving. He's Young, 23 and in his Second Season, so he's got time and room to grow.

Re: Class of 2023 Analysis (Discussion)

By Brrexkl
7/19/2016 6:06 pm
blackflys wrote:
4-5 yards is what a low end rushing team will average. and 5-6 years to get production is a little to late. theres so many low round rbs who would produce more then all the conversions being talked about. a good defense will stop a converted TE any day no matter how much weight he loses. his 100 speed will never be the same as a 215 pound guy even if the te gets down to 215.there not made for rb and they shouldent even be able to be switched to RB. its never in nfl history been done and there is a good reason.


Except we aren't talking the NFL... we are talking Coding.

What JD states from a Code Perspective is that Speed is tied to Weight, as is Strength.

No where has he said, that I've been shown, that what some one USED to Weigh matters, only what the CURRENTLY Weigh.

So please show me from the Coding Perspective how a 217 lbs RB with 100 SPD and 100 ACC and 100 Ball Carry won't be exactly as fast as a 217 lbs RB converted from TE with 100 SPD and 100 ACC and 100 Ball Carry.

Once he's 217, he's 217. So his Speed is thus based on that Current Weight.

Also, you state 4-5 YPC is what a Low End Rushing Team will average.

In 2022 we had exactly ONE Team get out of the 5 Range, and that was San Diego at 7.1 YPC.

Then we have the 5 Range of Seattle, Pittsburgh, New Orleans, San Francisco, Cinci, Arizona and Carolina. That's 7 Teams, in the Top 8, that Range from 5.1 YPC to 5.8 YPC.

Basically, outside of San Deigo, you are saying our entire Top 10 Rushing YPC Teams are 'Low End Rushing Teams'.

14 Teams failed to get to 4.0 YPC.

15 Teams were at 4.5 YPC or Better. So 4.5 YPC is a pretty good spot, and getting into 5 is great. It's the rare team popping off 6+ Per Carry.

Which is why I was confused when you were saying Leon Arana would top off at 5 YPC... 5 YPC is awesome. That's not a bad thing at all.

I look at Pat Strobe of Cincy, who was Converted (likely from TE) as he has 75/97 Run Blocking and 83/92 Pass Blocking. He Weighs 231 lbs, (6% Above Average) and is 24 in his 3rd Season in the MFN. He's a 74/85 as a RB.

He was 4th in Rushing at 1,584 Yards with 14 TD at 5.5 YPC with a Long of 53.

Pat Strobe in only 3 Seasons seems to have become a rather Effective RB, and still has room to grow in Ball Carrying and Breat Tackle.

So it looks like it HAS been done in the MFN, in our very own League 7, by Cincy.

Re: Class of 2023 Analysis (Discussion)

By punisher
7/19/2016 6:20 pm
Brrexkl wrote:

I look at Pat Strobe of Cincy, who was Converted (likely from TE) as he has 75/97 Run Blocking and 83/92 Pass Blocking. He Weighs 231 lbs, (6% Above Average) and is 24 in his 3rd Season in the MFN. He's a 74/85 as a RB.
He was 4th in Rushing at 1,584 Yards with 14 TD at 5.5 YPC with a Long of 53.
Pat Strobe in only 3 Seasons seems to have become a rather Effective RB, and still has room to grow in Ball Carrying and Breat Tackle.
So it looks like it HAS been done in the MFN, in our very own League 7, by Cincy.


actually I just looked at that player and thru his transactions I didn't see him moved from TE to RB because usually when you look thru a players transactions it will tell you he got moved from one position to another if you edit the filler to check position changes but leave rest blank

Pat Strobe = https://mfn7.myfootballnow.com/player/5152

only thing that got changed was his # number from 32 to 34 which even shows if anything he might have been moved from FB to RB or he was just a RB because only RBs and FBS have 30's in jerseys on offense.

Re: Class of 2023 Analysis (Discussion)

By Brrexkl
7/19/2016 6:26 pm
punisher wrote:
Brrexkl wrote:

I look at Pat Strobe of Cincy, who was Converted (likely from TE) as he has 75/97 Run Blocking and 83/92 Pass Blocking. He Weighs 231 lbs, (6% Above Average) and is 24 in his 3rd Season in the MFN. He's a 74/85 as a RB.
He was 4th in Rushing at 1,584 Yards with 14 TD at 5.5 YPC with a Long of 53.
Pat Strobe in only 3 Seasons seems to have become a rather Effective RB, and still has room to grow in Ball Carrying and Breat Tackle.
So it looks like it HAS been done in the MFN, in our very own League 7, by Cincy.


actually I just looked at that player and thru his transactions I didn't see him moved from TE to RB because usually when you look thru a players transactions it will tell you he got moved from one position to another if you edit the filler to check position changes but leave rest blank

Pat Strobe = https://mfn7.myfootballnow.com/player/5152

only thing that got changed was his # number from 32 to 34 which even shows if anything he might have been moved from FB to RB or he was just a RB because only RBs and FBS have 30's in jerseys on offense.


I was trying to figure that out as well. TE is his 3rd Best, right behind FB... so maybe he was a FB. If so, that's insane considering the Speed/Acceleration/Ball Carry.

Re: Class of 2023 Analysis (Discussion)

By Brrexkl
7/19/2016 6:41 pm
Transaction List seems to be a bit buggy, though.

For instance, I can show you where Leon Arana and Sergio Phillips Changed Jersey Numbers... but I can't show you where they Changed Position.

But we get into 2021... suddenly I see all kind of Position Changes.

I did find where he was Drafted on Transaction, which just states RB. So maybe sometimes the Game produces 230+ lbs RBs with 90+ Run and Pass Blocking? That being the case, hard to see how he lasted to the Pick 2-22.

Re: Class of 2023 Analysis (Discussion)

By Brrexkl
7/19/2016 6:44 pm
To add to this, on the Draft it shows Leona Arana as a RB... not the TE he was Drafted as.

So we can't really even use Transactions effectively to track these things. Oh well.

Re: Class of 2023 Analysis (Discussion)

By deanezag
7/19/2016 8:11 pm
Just to clear up the questions - He was drafted as a FB, switched to RB.